Thoughts about Orthodoxy and Evangelicalism
Today has been a good day. Glory be to God.
I went to my greek class, and we learned about the letters, diacritical marks, and pronunciation. Pretty basic stuff, but still an interesting class.
After that, I was at the AACF table hanging out with Kat and Jensine. Nobody really came by, but it was nice to hang out with my friends.
After that, I spent some time in the GTU bookstore and library, looking up books of the writings of the church fathers, esp. Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Cyprian, since it seems that these are the major authors who wrote about the church as a unified, institutional body. Some comments on this idea later.
Next, I went to my Psychology of Visuaol Perception class, which was interesting. Palmer is a good lecturer.
Then I came home and took a nap for a few hours.
And now, here I am, on my computer.
Thank God for rest. May he also grant me and other students good and joyful times when school gets a little busier later.
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Yesterday was nice. We had our first OCF meeting for this year. We didn't have a Divine Liturgy, since the priest had already performed one, since it was an important day (the beheading of John the Baptist/Baptizer). Lots of new people came, including one fellow who is looking into Orthodoxy who is coming from a Protestant background. Also, the food was excellent, as always. (New Orleans style food... mmm!)
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Recently, my studies of church doctrine and history have been focused on ecclesiology and the Apostolic succession of Episcopacy (that is, Bishops). Thus, I have been looking through the writings of the Pre-Nicene fathers tryign to find info on their doctrine of the church. I want to understand what the Church is, which Christ founded (Matt. 16:18). I want to understand what Paul meant when he talked about the body of Christ in I Corinthians 12.
Lord, help me, and have mercy on me a sinner.
Right now, I think that is the biggest, and perhaps the only, point of disagreement which I have with Orthodoxy: I am not entirely convinced that the Church which Christ founded is necessarily an institutional one. I am not entirely convinced that true apostolic succession is necessarily succession of Bishops and not merely holding the same doctrines as the apostles.
It seems that much of what Orthodox do is due to the culture in which it developed. This is not something against them: I could very well say the same thing about Evangelical Protestantism. I'm just wondering if the doctrine and praxis emerging from one culture are necessarily "more Christian" that that emerging from another.
Does Orthodoxy help one develop a greater love for God than Evangelicalism? Does Orthodoxy help or enable one to live the Christian life in a fuller way than Evangelicalism does?
And, if so, can the qualities of Orthodoxy which facilitate that love and that Christian life be brought into Evangelicalism? And what qualities are those? Are they in the praxis of the church: Smells, bells, Byzantine liturgy, making the sign of the cross, the cult of the Mary and the saints, or what else? Or might they be doctrinal: hesychasm, a deep understanding of cappadocian Trinitarianism, the recognition of the importance of the Church fathers in determining correct doctrine, etc.
Or can evangelicalism be brought into Orthodoxy? Evangelical practice: whether old hymnals, or CCM; protestant style preaching; etc? Ooh, how about big tent revivals? How about the Evangelical focus on the "personal relationship with Jesus Christ"?
Also, see here, and here.
With all of this, I don't know. Lord have mercy onme a sinner.
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If Orthodoxy is true, and Protestantism is heterodox, then would I want a non-Christian to be Protestant or to remain non-Christian? To understand this question, I have to also ask: from a Protestant point of view, would I prefer a non-Christian to be a member of some "Christian" heretical group, like a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness, or would I prefer them to be non-Christian?
What do you think? Leave comments.
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Oh, and I think Protestants need to be exposed to some of the hymnography, prayers, and writings of Orthodoxy (such as Ephrem the Syrian, St. Nikolai Velimirovich, and Alexander Elchaninov(Diary of a Russian Priest)). At the same time, I would like Orthodox people to experience some of Protestant worship and culture (some Protestant "Baptisty" hymns, some Christian musicians (such as Keith Green; especially "Asleep in the Light" (here and here)), and some Christian authors and preachers (big names like John Piper, or less known people such as Greg Mazak (who is currently on my playlist; hear his series on the book of James).)
-----------------
May Christ our true God (through the intercessions of His most pure Mother, and of all the Saints) have mercy on us and save us, forasmuch as He is good and loves mankind.
Amen.
I went to my greek class, and we learned about the letters, diacritical marks, and pronunciation. Pretty basic stuff, but still an interesting class.
After that, I was at the AACF table hanging out with Kat and Jensine. Nobody really came by, but it was nice to hang out with my friends.
After that, I spent some time in the GTU bookstore and library, looking up books of the writings of the church fathers, esp. Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Cyprian, since it seems that these are the major authors who wrote about the church as a unified, institutional body. Some comments on this idea later.
Next, I went to my Psychology of Visuaol Perception class, which was interesting. Palmer is a good lecturer.
Then I came home and took a nap for a few hours.
And now, here I am, on my computer.
Thank God for rest. May he also grant me and other students good and joyful times when school gets a little busier later.
-----------------
Yesterday was nice. We had our first OCF meeting for this year. We didn't have a Divine Liturgy, since the priest had already performed one, since it was an important day (the beheading of John the Baptist/Baptizer). Lots of new people came, including one fellow who is looking into Orthodoxy who is coming from a Protestant background. Also, the food was excellent, as always. (New Orleans style food... mmm!)
-----------------
Recently, my studies of church doctrine and history have been focused on ecclesiology and the Apostolic succession of Episcopacy (that is, Bishops). Thus, I have been looking through the writings of the Pre-Nicene fathers tryign to find info on their doctrine of the church. I want to understand what the Church is, which Christ founded (Matt. 16:18). I want to understand what Paul meant when he talked about the body of Christ in I Corinthians 12.
Lord, help me, and have mercy on me a sinner.
Right now, I think that is the biggest, and perhaps the only, point of disagreement which I have with Orthodoxy: I am not entirely convinced that the Church which Christ founded is necessarily an institutional one. I am not entirely convinced that true apostolic succession is necessarily succession of Bishops and not merely holding the same doctrines as the apostles.
It seems that much of what Orthodox do is due to the culture in which it developed. This is not something against them: I could very well say the same thing about Evangelical Protestantism. I'm just wondering if the doctrine and praxis emerging from one culture are necessarily "more Christian" that that emerging from another.
Does Orthodoxy help one develop a greater love for God than Evangelicalism? Does Orthodoxy help or enable one to live the Christian life in a fuller way than Evangelicalism does?
And, if so, can the qualities of Orthodoxy which facilitate that love and that Christian life be brought into Evangelicalism? And what qualities are those? Are they in the praxis of the church: Smells, bells, Byzantine liturgy, making the sign of the cross, the cult of the Mary and the saints, or what else? Or might they be doctrinal: hesychasm, a deep understanding of cappadocian Trinitarianism, the recognition of the importance of the Church fathers in determining correct doctrine, etc.
Or can evangelicalism be brought into Orthodoxy? Evangelical practice: whether old hymnals, or CCM; protestant style preaching; etc? Ooh, how about big tent revivals? How about the Evangelical focus on the "personal relationship with Jesus Christ"?
Also, see here, and here.
With all of this, I don't know. Lord have mercy onme a sinner.
-----------------
If Orthodoxy is true, and Protestantism is heterodox, then would I want a non-Christian to be Protestant or to remain non-Christian? To understand this question, I have to also ask: from a Protestant point of view, would I prefer a non-Christian to be a member of some "Christian" heretical group, like a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness, or would I prefer them to be non-Christian?
What do you think? Leave comments.
-----------------
Oh, and I think Protestants need to be exposed to some of the hymnography, prayers, and writings of Orthodoxy (such as Ephrem the Syrian, St. Nikolai Velimirovich, and Alexander Elchaninov(Diary of a Russian Priest)). At the same time, I would like Orthodox people to experience some of Protestant worship and culture (some Protestant "Baptisty" hymns, some Christian musicians (such as Keith Green; especially "Asleep in the Light" (here and here)), and some Christian authors and preachers (big names like John Piper, or less known people such as Greg Mazak (who is currently on my playlist; hear his series on the book of James).)
-----------------
May Christ our true God (through the intercessions of His most pure Mother, and of all the Saints) have mercy on us and save us, forasmuch as He is good and loves mankind.
Amen.
Labels: Orthodox
posted by thebrainkid at 8/30/2006 07:46:00 PM
2 Comments:
Good question... I don't think that the Orthodox Church would view being a pagan as being more advantageous than being a "heterodox Christian". Now, being a heretic, meaning someone who WAS Orthodox and left the faith would be worse than being a pagan. While some protestants and "cults" believe some heretical things they cannot be classified with those who are in concious and willful schism from the Church. Nice post all around, good thoughts.
Hi,
Right now, I think that is the biggest, and perhaps the only, point of disagreement which I have with Orthodoxy: I am not entirely convinced that the Church which Christ founded is necessarily an institutional one. I am not entirely convinced that true apostolic succession is necessarily succession of Bishops and not merely holding the same doctrines as the apostles.
It seems that much of what Orthodox do is due to the culture in which it developed. This is not something against them: I could very well say the same thing about Evangelical Protestantism. I'm just wondering if the doctrine and praxis emerging from one culture are necessarily "more Christian" that that emerging from another.
Yeah, that's pretty much true across the board. And I share your sentiments here. For me, two distinct churches with two different theological traditions can both be "the true church" because while the church may be infallible, she doesn't have absolute knowledge of all things. So long as the two traditions are not in conflict, in which case, I would then have to say one or the other is true. I don't think alot of people take into account the historical context of doctrine when looking at the issue of church-validity. And that's not really a good thing.
If Orthodoxy is true, and Protestantism is heterodox, then would I want a non-Christian to be Protestant or to remain non-Christian? To understand this question, I have to also ask: from a Protestant point of view, would I prefer a non-Christian to be a member of some "Christian" heretical group, like a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness, or would I prefer them to be non-Christian?
Under normal circumstances, yes I would rather for a person to be Mormon or JW, than Pagan ect., because at least Christ has a foot in the door in Mormonism and JWs. Whatever exposure a person has to Christ, even if it's heterodox is better than no exposure. Conversion has to start somewhere.
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